PODCAST: Joe Britto on Mindset and Management Consulting

An Outback Talks podcast episode, featuring our very own mindset and management consulting expert, Joe Britto. Listen in to learn more about Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting and the six attributes of a leadership mindset, according to Joe.

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An Outback Talks podcast episode, featuring our very own mindset and management consulting expert, Joe Britto. Listen in to learn more about Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting and the six attributes of a leadership mindset, according to Joe.

We recently sat down with Joe Britto, a psychological coach, published author, founder of Innate Leaders, and Outback’s interactive management consulting expert, to learn more about his innovative solution Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting.

You can listen to the full episode below, or continue reading to learn more.

During the interview, Joe took us through:

  • How Innate Leaders’ Management Consulting Works: Outlining the two stages of a management consulting solution with Innate Leaders, Joe describes what it’s like for corporate groups to work with his team.
  • The 6 Attributes of a Leadership Mindset: Joe covers all six attributes in depth and discusses how they relate to Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting.
  • Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting: Covering the ins and outs of Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting, Joe explains the specifics of this solution, identifying the corporate groups that tend to benefit most.
  • How This Solution Is Different: In the episode, Joe also walks us through how Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting differs from more traditional management consulting.

“I think sometimes, the approaches that we take to grow team cohesion are kind of temporary solutions as opposed to a long-term, meaningful one. So, sometimes, it’s scary and it’s difficult,” Joe explains in the episode.



How Innate Leaders’ Management Consulting Works

Regardless of which solution your group has chosen to help support your leadership team’s growth, management consulting with Innate Leaders always follows the same two-step process.

“The way that we work with Innate Leaders is we have what we call a two-stage approach,” says Joes. “So, it’s always going to be around the six attributes in growing a leadership mindset, because that’s kind of our thing.”

Although all of Joe’s management consulting solutions follow one format, it isn’t to say that all of them are the same. Far from it. In fact, each solution is built bespoke from the ground up to address the unique challenges of each group that Joe and his team work with.

For example, not every management consultation will apply all six attributes. Instead, the team will evaluate which of the six are most impactful to a specific challenge and focus on those.

Viewed through the lens of these attributes, Joe guides corporate groups in changing their perspectives. But what does this mean, exactly? Simply put: “We get the team to start to think differently.”

Joe explains that this first stage is so important to making the second part of the Innate Leaders process work. He says, “These things are really easy to talk about and they’re hard to do, and that’s what the point of Innate Leaders is."

Stage two is then all about how to embrace and operationalize this adjusted mindset. Joe challenges teams to ask themselves, “How do you create systems and processes and new ways of working, informed by this shift in thinking that allow us to, first of all, embed a new way of working, second of all, reinforce this shift in mindset, and third of all, create a meaningful long-term, sustainable change for that business?”



The 6 Attributes and Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting

So, what are the six attributes of management consulting? According to Joe, “There’s this thing called leadership mindset that we feel is comprised of six attributes, possibly more, but these are the six that we think are worth focusing on.” They are:

  1. Mindfulness
  2. Genuine Curiosity
  3. Flexibility of Mind
  4. Resilience
  5. Creating Leaders
  6. Enterprise Thinking

As mentioned, not every group will focus on shifting their mindset in terms of all six of the attributes. For Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting, Joe says that most groups will need to pay attention to genuine curiosity, flexibility of mind, and enterprise thinking.

Find more information on each attribute below.

1. Mindfulness
“Mindfulness is really about having the ability to be present in a moment to see what is going on under the surface of a situation,” says Joe. He continues, “To not react to a situation but to wait, to see, to understand the dimensions of the challenge, and then to make a decision based on that.”

2. Genuine Curiosity
“Genuine curiosity is asking sometimes very obvious, very simple, but also very profound questions about why we do things the way we do,” explains Joe. He suggests that the difference between curiosity and genuine curiosity is asking questions in the spirit of wanting to know, without having a predetermined end goal in mind.

3. Flexibility of Mind
“Flexibility of mind has this kind of quality. It’s the only attribute that actually runs in a process. So, it’s a three-step process, you might say,” describes Joe. The first step is recognizing that you could be wrong. The second part is to understand that there are multiple valid solutions to any problem. And then the third step is to creatively combine these solutions into a revolutionary idea.

4. Resilience

“Resilience is really all about keeping keeping on,” suggests Joe. He explains that when it’s really difficult to get something done, resilience is the guiding light that allows us to live through it, keep our eyes on the prize, and get back up after we’ve been knocked down.

5. Creating Leaders

“Creating leaders is about creating leaders of others, but I just call it creating leaders,” says Joe. He explains that this attribute focuses on how to grow leaders and help people think for themselves in order to create a leadership pipeline within a business.

6. Enterprise Thinking
Joe explains that enterprise thinking is about doing what makes the most sense for the business because you understand that by doing so, you’re also benefitting yourself. “When it works at its best,” says Joe, “we are working together to do what is best for our business areas and what is best for the enterprise as a whole."



Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting

What Is Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting?

After offering a variety of management consulting solutions, Joe explains that there are many reasons why a leadership team may be failing, such as interpersonal issues or siloed departments.

Whatever the cause, however, Joe says that leaders typically end up working solely for the benefit of their business area, rather than the organization. Of course, this makes it difficult for leadership teams to come together as a unified group to manage the company and the direction it needs to go.

With Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting, Innate Leaders helps equip groups with the necessary mindset to work in unison, and the actionable steps to achieve a common goal and drive their business forward.

"If we have a team that is cohesive, we know what the stage of business areas are, we know what the state of the business is, we know where the business is heading” says Joe. "And to have those kinds of conversations, now we can effectively lead that business.”

Who Is Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting For?

Based on the name of this solution, it likely comes as no surprise that the groups who benefit most from Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting are upper management.

Joe explains, “We tend to work a lot with executive teams because, if you create something meaningful there, there’s a really good chance that that’s going to cascade throughout the entire business.” He continues to say that director levels, senior leadership teams, or even middle managers can also benefit from this consulting solution.



How Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting Is Different

“We’re not the people who come in and do a day of something and go, 'Okay you guys,’” begins Joe. "We’re in the business of creating meaningful, long-term change.”

A traditional coach generally focuses on a gap within a team and offers ways to fill that void. Joe mentions that these solutions are usually outcome-focused, trying to build a plan to get to “X.”

“And that works in lots of instances,” says Joe. But for him and his team, the focus is on psychological coaching and mindset consulting. "So, we’re also concerned about what is going on under the surface, you might say, that is making it difficult to achieve something.”

Joe adds, “If you shift the way you think, you naturally shift the way that you behave.”

Management consulting with Innate Leaders is all about expanding leaders’ mindsets and implementing new behaviors that result in innovative and sustainable solutions. Using the six attributes, Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting is different from your “traditional” consultation in that it supports a shift in how groups think about business issues, rather than offering a quick fix. It’s ideal for executive groups who need support in fundamentally altering how they operate as leaders.

Has your team ever participated in management consulting or coaching? Share your experience in the comments below.



Learn More About How Management Consulting Can Support Your Team

For more information about how our leadership coaching and management consulting solutions can benefit your group, reach out to our Employee Engagement Consultants 

Get in Touch



Kara Sy: Hi everyone and welcome to Outback Talks: The Employee Engagement Podcast. This podcast is produced by Outback Team Building & Training, a leading team building, training, and consulting provider for organizations across North America. I’m your host, Kara Sy, and on today’s show I’m joined by a very special guest, Joe Britto, a mindset and management consultant at Innate Leaders. Joe also happens to be our lead coach and consultant here at Outback and he sat down with me to discuss his exciting solution, Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting.

KS: Alright, welcome back to Outback Talks, Joe…

Joe Britto: Thank you!

KS: Thank you so much for joining me on the show today, we’re happy to have you back.

JB: Yeah! It’s always fun.

KS: So, let’s jump right into it, today we’re talking about Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting. Can you give me a bit of a general overview of what that solution is?

JB: Yes, so the idea behind it is, there’s lots of reasons why a leadership team may, which I would say, not be as productive as we would want, and some of those could be interpersonal and that people on the team, perhaps they don’t get along, that’s possible. It could be that, the team does get along just fine, but of course, each leader will have its own, their own responsibilities, so they may be leading a business area, they may be leading a department, they may be doing whatever it is…

KS: Finances…

JB: Exactly! And then, what can happen sometimes in terms of cohesion is that the leaders aren’t necessarily working toward the benefit of the enterprise so much as working for benefit of their team or their business areas and then that makes it difficult for that team to come together as a unified leadership team, to, you know, obviously lead the business and the direction it needs to go.

KS: Right, so you could have individual team leaders having success within their own departments and not finding that cohesion as a company.

JB: Yeah, and that is such a good point, right? Because I think, sometimes when you’re the leader of the team or department or business areas, sometimes it feels like my performance is gauged by the effectiveness or the success of my business area, and to a certain extent, of course that’s true, right? Like if I’m the leader of a business area, and that business area is failing, it’s going to be up to me, but it’s also true that, that business area doesn’t sit in a vacuum, it sits within the larger team, and of course, within the larger enterprise. So, it is a difficult balance, of course, right? Between what’s best for my business area, while at the same time doing what’s best for the business, but that, to me, that’s the point of a leadership team, right? That we come in together and we say, “Okay, from your perspective, what is happening in your business area? What is happening in your teams?” And then as a collective leadership we can go, “Okay, so now that we understand all those things that are happening, here’s what we need to do as a business.” And, also, the other way around, to say, “As a business, we need to be doing this. What do we need to change in our various business areas or departments in order to make that thing happen?” So you can see, like, the whole thing really is about, if we have a team that is cohesive, and by cohesive I mean the team that is willing to have, kind of, the open honest conversation so that we know what the stage of business areas are, we know what the state of the business is, we know where the business is heading, and to have those kinds of conversations, now we can effectively lead that business.

KS: Right, and so that’s what you’re helping guide in these consultations?

JB: Yes, I think, two things really. One is, so the way that we work with Innate Leaders is we have, kind of, what we call a two-stage approach. So, it’s always going to be around the six attributes in growing a leadership mindset, because that’s kind of our thing. So it will be, kind of, housed in that framework or looked at through that lens, but then the two-stage approach is really, how do we grow a leadership mindset in this team when in terms of team cohesion, that would be around how do we get the team to start to think differently so that they don’t see themselves or they see themselves less as I am the leader of my business area and that is the most important thing, versus, how do we work together as a leadership team for the benefit of the entire business. So, some of the things I just mentioned, the six attributes, and you know, the two that are most important I think for team cohesion would be genuine curiosity, which means asking, you know sometimes very obvious, very simple, but also very profound questions about why do we do things the way we do. Are there opportunities that we can’t see, that we’re missing, that we could be seeing? So, really simple questions sometimes that allow us to throw up lots of different answers. The thing, you know, lots of people say to me, “What’s the difference between genuine curiosity and curiosity?” And genuine curiosity is really about asking questions in the spirit of wanting to know, without an end point in mind. So, not asking a question because I’m trying to get, I’m asking question simply because I’d like to know. But genuine curiosity tends to throw up lots of answers and that’s where flexibility of mind comes in because flexibility of mind then takes those answers, combines them in creative ways to come up with what I call revolutionary idea. So, for team cohesion, that revolutionary idea could be, and it’s just, I’m making stuff up now…

KS: Spitballing…

JB: Yeah, exactly. But that revolutionary idea could be is: are there systems and processes that we could be putting in place that help us work collectively as a team? Genuine curiosity might be asking questions like, “Why is it difficult for us to have open conversations around challenges we face in business areas?” Genuine curiosity might ask, “Why is it that our business areas don’t seem to be aligned as well as they could to the corporate strategy?” Like those kinds of things.

KS: It’s so interesting how some of the simplest questions can offer these profound answers like you said. And so, with those two attributes in mind, you mentioned the six attributes. Can you take us through the rest of them?

JB: Can I take you through the rest of the attributes? Yeah, for sure. So, first of all, I should say that I’ll do these as if they’re six separate things, and they’re totally not six separate things, right? So, there’s this thing called leadership mindset that we feel is comprised of six attributes, possibly more, but these are the six that we think are worth kind of focusing on, and they would be, so, mindfulness. Mindfulness is really about having the ability to be present in a moment to see what is going on under the surface of a situation, to not react to a situation but to wait, to see, to understand the dimensions of the challenge, and then to make a decision based on that.

KS: And can you touch how that would tie into the Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting?

JB: Leadership Team Cohesion would be about, so a certain amount of mindfulness would be about being present enough in the moment so that when somebody says something, let’s say they say there’s a challenge with the business area and it happens to be mine, I don’t go, “Hey, what do you mean by that?” Instead, I have the presence of mind to be able to go “Okay, well actually what this person is doing is exploring challenges that are existing, in this case, in my business area and we are all working for the greater good of the business,” so I could either be defensive about this or I can engage with this. So, it’s about, kind of, that’s what I mean about understanding what is going on under the surface. So rather than reacting to the thing that is front and center, we could go, “Okay what actually could be going on here?” Flexibility of mind has this kind of quality, it’s the only attribute that actually runs in a process. So, it’s a three-step process you might say, for flexibility of mind. The first step is recognizing that I could be wrong, because it’s difficult to be flexible in your thinking if you’re attached to what I call a cherished idea, which is, “This is the way it needs to be.” If you find yourself kind of arguing for something repeatedly over series of meetings over months or years even, then that’s probably a cherished idea. I think what I find sometimes when I go into businesses is, somebody voices an idea, and, of course, at that time I don’t know it’s a cherished idea because I’ve just heard it, but I’ll hear it several times, over and over again, over the course of several meetings…

KS: Aha!

JB: And there is this kind of funny thing with a cherished idea that what some people do is they voice their idea, they say their idea, nobody goes for it, but in their head they go, “Oh I see what’s going on here. They just don’t really understand it.” So, then they’ll just say it again, and again, and again, and again, or then they’ll just hold on to it because they’ll go, “Clearly people aren’t into it, so what I’ll do is I’ll wait for like a couple of meetings or few weeks or a month or…”

KS: Bring it back up again…

JB: “...Maybe I’ll just say it again, and then maybe at that point they’ll do it.” Or, in short, it’s like your lobby horse, right? So, if you always want to – so, first of all, recognizing that we could be wrong is a really good way to kind of mitigate the effects of a cherished idea. Second one, is to realize, which kind of follows from the first one, that there’s multiple valid solutions to a problem. So, there isn’t just one and there is never ever just one solution to anything, like there’s lots of ways of doing something. So, if we let go of our cherished idea, now we are in a position to receive more than one valid idea. And then the third step is to creatively combine these valid ideas, so, lots of good idea as you might say, into a revolutionary idea. So, basically, you take the best bits of all the ideas and you go, “Hey, how can we make this into one great idea?” So it’s also like a really good way to mitigate the fact that, you know, because if we start it, like we go back to step one, that we could be wrong, then if I could come up with an idea into a solution, there’s a solution that could be wrong too, right? Like I was in this meeting one time with this team, and they were saying to me, “Well, that doesn’t really help us to know that we could be wrong, because now we’re paralyzed that anything that we do could be wrong.” And that’s kind of what the three steps kind of take care of, because if I could be, it’s true, that I could be wrong about one idea, but it’s unlikely that I’m going to be wrong about, if I combine four or five ideas. Resilience is really all about, so that’s one of the attributes, and that’s about keeping keeping on, really. That when it’s really, really difficult to get something done, resilience is the guiding light that allows us to live through, and in the book, there’s a book that I just wrote recently called The Six Attributes of the Leadership Mindset, and I talk about resilience, one of the behaviors being, keep your eyes on the prize, and I talk about that in the book. That’s a hymn or a song from the civil rights movement. You know, if resilience had a sound, it would sound like that song, this real kind of understanding that there are problems ahead, there are obstacles ahead but we will overcome them and we will get to where we need to get to. And that’s the point of resilience, right? If I know that I’m going to do something and do these four, five, six, seven steps and those steps will lead me to wherever it is that I want, I don’t actually need to be resilient, because built in to the idea, the concept of resilience is, you’re probably going to get knocked down, and you keep on going anyway.

KS: Even if you’re wrong.

JB: Yeah, even if you’re wrong. Well, actually, not so much even if you’re wrong, but you go back, you discover that you may be wrong and then you develop a new idea, a bigger idea or a better idea. But that’s a good point that you say, because there’s a big difference between resilience and pigheadedness. Pigheadedness is I am not going to admit that I could possibly be wrong here and I’m going to make this thing come and happen come hell or high water, and that is the opposite of Resilience. That’s basically holding on to a cherished idea on steroids, right?

KS: Yes…Creating leaders…

JB: Creating leaders is about, so it’s creating leaders of others, I just call it creating leaders, but it’s really about thinking about the world view we hold of leaders. So, I think that there is, kind of, three broad buckets or three broad mindsets that we can hold as a leader. A world view actually is a better way to say it than a mindset, right? So, in this way of thinking about it, I think we can have a world view that sees the job of a leader as being someone who make sure that things get done. So, it’s almost like, my leadership team has given me these things I need to get done, so I have to go, my job is to go to my team and make sure that these things get done, make sure that my team delivers, and I call that being focused on the task. And then, another world view as a leader could be that I see my role as being someone who imparts my experience and understanding and wisdom to my team.

KS: More like a mentor.

JB: Yeah, more like a mentor. So, when they are doing things, what I do then is I just go and I say to them, “Well, I would do it this way or I would do it this way.” And I call that the teach world view, so my worldview is basically I’m going to teach people what to do. And then the third one is, you’ll be surprised, it’s the create world view, and this kind of world view, our focus is how do I grow leaders of other people so my world view as a leader is to create other leaders, and it’s a different approach. So, rather than kind of teaching people what to do or making sure a task gets done, I’m now very much concerned about, “Are people thinking for themselves? Do people have the information that they need in order to make decisions in the interest of themselves and their teams, and their departments but also in the interest of the business?” So, the cool thing about somebody who has a world view of create, is that they are also, as well as creating a leader in front of you, you’re also creating a leadership pipeline within that business.

KS: Right. Okay and the sixth one – enterprise thinking.

JB: Enterprise thinking, yeah. So, hopefully, you can see, or hopefully I’m being clear enough about, that all of these things are connecting with each other, because enterprise thinking is really going to pull on all of this, just like they all do, but it’s really about, what are we doing that is in the best interest? Can I have a vision or can I have a view that sees that what I do connects to a wider business and that what I do can support a wider business. So, it’s kind of working, you know like some people say that enterprise thinking is about doing what’s best for the business despite yourself. And I would say it’s about doing what’s best for the business because you understand that by doing what’s best for the business is you do what’s best for you. So, back to that book for a second, because there’s this kind of like an analogy that I have that I think is kind of helpful in terms of enterprise thinking that isn’t got to do with business, because I think sometimes people, you know, it’s a bit grey for what it means for me and my role in the business. But if anybody sails, one way to kind of think about it is, if you are in a like a sailing dingy, so like a 16-foot boat, it’s not huge, it’s not enormous, it’s not going to get tad about by the wind, but it’s a sailing boat, and if you’re sailing on this on flat water and let’s say you have a crew of four people and they’re all kind of sitting on the edge of the boat, you’ll be fine. But if the wind comes in and it starts to tip that boat over and if everybody jumps to the side that they think is going to keep them out of the water, so let’s say all four people go to the side that they think, “Yeah this is going to keep me out of the water,” they’ll tip the boat, and the boat will go over. So, by doing what they think is best for themselves, they’re actually doing what’s worse for everybody.

KS: Right, you can really see how that one ties into this specific solution too as Leadership Team Cohesion.

JB: Yeah. You know, that is exactly right, and you know what, there is something about Team Cohesion that makes us go, when it works as its best, we are working together to do what is best for our business areas and what is best for the enterprise as a whole. But you know, these things are really easy to talk about and they’re hard to do and that’s what is kind of the point of Innate Leaders really, because this two-step approach that I am talking about, so the first step is that we shift mindsets in a way that we’ve just described, but we may not shift mindsets in terms of all those six attributes, we may just kind of take a few, and I think, especially for Leadership Team Cohesions, it’s probably going to be genuine curiosity, flexibility of mind, and enterprise thinking probably, I mean, perhaps. So, that’s kind of stage one, but stage two then is now how do you operationalize that? How do you create systems and processes and new ways on working, informed by this shift in thinking that allow us to, first of all, embed a new way of working, second of all, reinforces this shift in mindset, and third of all, create a meaningful long term sustainable change for that business.

KS: Well yeah, and I mean, to your point earlier, it’s simple enough to say it’s okay to be wrong or know you could be wrong, but of course, you know a leader in a well-established role, it’s going to be a lot more difficult for them to establish that, to allow themselves the flexibility of mind to be wrong.

JB: And part of it too, and that’s where mindfulness comes in in this example, because part of it, you know, you are absolutely right, if I’m senior in the business, I have a different perspective obviously than everybody else, but also, there is a thing that sometimes people do that when you are around a senior person, you defer to them. And that’s no fault of the senior person, it’s just that, that’s kind of how humans tend to be. So, one of the challenges for the senior person that is, I may not be getting an honest presentation of what is going on in this business. Do you know that TV program that actually, it’s called Undercover Boss? That’s like a really good example of what I am talking about. So as like the leader of a business, you think everything is great, and all of my senior managers are all doing what they should be doing, and then you go down to the front lines and you find out what’s really going on with your business. And I think that’s kind of what I mean about this kind of mindfulness, to know that just because people are saying to you, “Blah, blah, blah,” it doesn’t necessarily mean that all is well in your business.

KS: Yeah, so that’s an interesting segue into my next question for you. What type of corporate groups do you think would benefit the most from this solution?

JB: So, with Leadership Team Cohesion, leadership teams…

KS: Yeah, of course.

JB: But you could say, what kind of level of leadership team, and I think like executives are a great way to start. We tend to work a lot with executive teams, because if you create something meaningful there, there’s a really good chance that that’s going to cascade throughout the entire business, and we’re kind of in the business of creating meaningful, long-term change, right? We’re not the people who come-in and do like a day of something and go, “Okay you guys.” So, that’s like a really good place to start but director levels work quite well, senior management levels, middle managers, and probably when you get lower than that, then that’s probably outside of our kind of arena.

KS: Yeah, and so, you just mentioned how you’re not the type of coaching and consulting that comes in for a one-day thing. What type of results can these executive teams expect from the types of solutions that you are offering?

JB: Yeah, so the result that they would get, first of all they get a shift in thinking, that’s kind of the main thing that we do, but we have this two-stage approach, we apply that shift in thinking to the real world challenges of the team in this case, or perhaps the business, phases, to design a meaningful change to the way we operate as a team or as a business. So, what that means then is because we are applying our shift in thinking to a challenge, we look at it differently, we create a solution that we would never have thought of before because we are looking at it differently and then we operationalize that solution. So, it would be different for different teams, but, the general sense of it is, first of all, we get a shift in thinking, and then we’ll get a revolutionary solution to the challenge that we face either as a team or business.

KS: Right, and so, can you, sort of, point out how it’s different from a typical consultation or coaching? JB: Yeah, so the way it differs from traditional coaching would be that, the traditional coach, and this is like a broad brush, right? Because there’s a lot to all of these different things, but a traditional coach is generally going to be focusing on what is the gap, what is the ability gap and can we fill that in order to do whatever we do, and they tend to be kind of outcome focused, so tend to be kind of, “Let’s build a plan to get to X.” And that’s fine, and that works in lots of instances. I think, probably, we’re psychological coaches, we’re mindset consultants, so we’re also concerned about what is the, what is going on under the surface, you might say, that is making it difficult to achieve that.

KS: Digging a bit deeper.

JB: Yeah, because I think, you can work with someone to create a plan, and you can even “ra, ra, ra” support them as they go through that plan, doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re going to complete that plan. So, I think that, when you start to look at, what is going to make it difficult to make that plan happen, now we’re kind of getting a little bit more into our space, because we are more concerned with, “Is there anything that you’re thinking about or anything about your mindset or anything about the mindset of your shared team or whatever it may be that’s going to make it difficult to make these things happen?” So, whereas, to summarize really, whereas, a traditional coach is looking for how do we create the outcome that you’re looking for, we’re kind of more looking at what is it that is working or not working for us in order to create whatever it is that we are looking for.

KS: So, is it fair to say that you’re offering more of a fundamental shift in how these leadership teams are actually thinking about the problem rather than just a solution to the problem. Like you say, it’s not so much outcome focused. Of course, you want them to achieve the results, but rather than just giving them X, Y, Z to get there, you’re shifting the entire way they are looking at that problem in order to get there.

JB: It’s a nice way to think about it, that’s right. So, if traditional coaching is looking at what is the outcome that you are trying to achieve and what steps do we need to hit in order to achieve them, and what I say, that is useful and needed in some instances so I’m not degrading that at all. Mindset work though, what that does, is it looks at what is the core challenge that is getting in the way, how can we shift your mindset to adjust, overcome that challenge, and then, because we’ve shifted mindsets, you also, you know as a free being what I say, you’ve also shifted behaviors, because if you shift the way you think, you naturally shift the way that you behave. So, the difference between traditional coaching which is really looking for: “Here’s our goal, what’s our steps to get there?” Versus mindset consulting, which is: “Let’s shift the way that we think and as a result, shift the way that we behave.” And because we’re behaving differently, we are now able to see the challenge differently, create a different solution to that challenge and then also work toward making it happen because we’ve shifted our behaviors.

KS: Right. So, is there anything else that you’d like to mention about Leadership Team Cohesion Consulting before we wrap up?

JB: I think that it’s a different way for lots of people to think about teams, and I think that, often we think, “Okay, our team has a problem, so let’s do this, let’s do this, let’s do that.” And I think sometimes, the approaches that we take to grow team cohesion are kind of temporary solutions as opposed to a long-term, meaningful one, so I think, sometimes it’s scary and it’s difficult. There is like a few people who work with us on team cohesion who said to us, “Did you know it seemed like a bit of risk,” but I think sometimes you take the risk and you get something that you never knew was possible.

KS: Well that’s great, thank you so much for your insight today, Joe, and thanks for joining me. And Joe will be back next time with another episode talking about Strategic Focus Consulting, so we look forward to having you back.

JB: Thank you.

KS: That’s it for this episode of Outback Talks. Thanks again to Joe for joining me on today’s show and thank you for listening. Outback Team Building & Training helps organizations across North America build relationships through memorable team building, training, and consulting experiences. And our team has been recommended by over 14,000 corporate groups in the United States and Canada. To learn more about Joe and his coaching and consulting solutions, visit the Coaching & Consulting section of our website at outbackteambuilding.com or get in touch with one of our Employee Engagement Consultants. And don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast on Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever you may listen to your podcasts. Until next time, this is Outback Talks: The Employee Engagement Podcast.